Elon Musk claimed that an audit carried out beneath the Division of Authorities Effectivity recognized between $100 billion and $200 billion value of annual funds he known as “zombie funds,” making it the clearest rationalization he has ever supplied for the hassle he briefly led through the early years of Donald Trump's administration.
Musk's feedback got here throughout a podcast interview revealed Tuesday that rapidly went viral, relating all the pieces from immigration and synthetic intelligence to colonizing Mars and metaphysics. The 53-minute episode, hosted by Katie Miller, a former Trump administration aide and spouse of White Home adviser Stephen Miller, was posted on X and garnered greater than 1 million views inside hours.
The dialogue centered on the origins of DOGE, Musk's coverage views, and reflections on his time since leaving the place in Might. Musk mentioned the Division of Authorities Effectivity, often called DOGE, started with casual discussions and was constructed round solutions on the Web.
“The title Doge is a made-up title,” he mentioned, explaining that somebody on-line steered “Division of Authorities Effectivity, DOGE.” “So we form of created a division.”
Musk mentioned DOGE has managed to maneuver ahead regardless of resistance to authorities cuts.
“We had some success, which meant we stopped plenty of funding that actually didn’t make sense,” he mentioned. “It was an entire waste. For instance, there have been in all probability $100 billion a 12 months, perhaps $200 billion value of zombie funds.”
@elonmusk episode:
0:00 — Introduction
1:13 — The start of DOGE
2:22 — Was DOGE successful?
3:51 — Will Elon DOGE once more?
5:40 — Importing unlawful immigrants
7:00 — Ideas on Ilhan Omar
7:56 — AI and robots will exchange jobs
9:59 — Elon's largest irrational concern
10:17 —… pic.twitter.com/AaXsKQ5On0— Katie Miller Podcast (@katiemillerpod) December 9, 2025
Requested whether or not he would repeat the expertise, Musk mentioned he had no intention of doing so. “As a substitute of becoming a member of DOGE, I feel I used to be basically working by myself firm,” he mentioned, arguing that his efforts to cease improper funds induced vital backlash. He mentioned politically-linked makes an attempt to cease the stream of funds have made it troublesome to proceed working.
The interview additionally delved into immigration coverage, a long-standing precedence for the Miller household. Mr. Musk criticized the shortage of sufficient controls on unlawful immigration and argued that growing automation would pressure public sources and improve labor market pressures. He linked the problem to broader financial uncertainty, saying AI and robotics would take away many roles, and known as for retraining packages and new types of social help.
In terms of know-how, Musk has repeatedly warned concerning the potential for AI to rework employment, whereas defending the necessity for U.S. management.
“AI and robotics will be capable of present all the products and providers that anybody might presumably need,” he mentioned. He added that a lot of his predictions don’t mirror his personal preferences: “Persons are confused about it. They assume that what I predicted would occur is what I need to occur.” He mentioned AI was even shaping his sleep patterns: “I had nightmares about AI for days on finish.”
He pointed to continued efforts in xAI towards synthetic basic intelligence and humanoid robotics, and added that current advances in machine studying help his long-standing curiosity in simulation principle.
“I’ve a principle about predicting the longer term: Essentially the most attention-grabbing final result is the almost certainly,” he mentioned. “If simulation principle is correct, that is sensible, as a result of if in case you have folks simulating totally different futures, they'll cease simulating once they get bored. That is what we do in actual life.”
Aerospace manufacturing firm SpaceX additionally made headlines, with Musk highlighting improvement on the firm's Starbase base in Texas and reiterating the concept human growth past Earth is crucial for long-term survival. He characterised the colonization of Mars as each an engineering problem and a civilizational crucial. Musk mentioned in April that he goals to ship a Tesla Optimus robotic to Mars in 2026.
Musk additionally commented on and condemned the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. He mentioned the episode highlighted rising safety considerations in public life.
The dialog turned to private particulars, with Musk explaining his back-to-back assembly schedule and including that he sleeps six hours an evening. He additionally mentioned he tried to dispel irrational fears.
“I attempt to not have irrational fears. If I see an irrational concern, I attempt to quell it,” he mentioned. “I don't assume concern kills the soul,” he added, quoting a traditional line from Frank Herbert's “Dune.”
